How Do You Sand? From WoodCentral

Like many woodworkers, the originator of this discussion thread describes himself as "not a fan of sanding." For his current project, he's managed to pass off – er, "share" – the sanding duties, but he wonders if other woodworkers have methods that work the best for them. - Editor

"I am not a fan of sanding. I have a Performax, Portable belt sander, ROS, Drum sander for the drill press, a 6x48 belt sander with 10" disk (new to me and not a lot of time on it yet) and lots of sandpaper. My son is participating in the building of a bed for him and his wife. I have (happily) let him sand the headboard. He thought he had it in spite of my protestations. Applied the stain and realized he needed to start over. (hee hee) Scraped with a hand scraper, sanded with a ROS. Incidentally, I call the first coat of finish The Reveal. If you think finish covers any mistakes, you are mistaken. Finish just reveals the flaws. So, how do you sand? Large flat surfaces? Edges of table tops? End grain? What machines have you found useful? Do you scrape first"- Barry I.

Some respondents interpreted the poster's question literally, answering how they sand in their own shops. - Editor

"So far as sanding goes, I run most projects through the widebelt sander where I work, then smooth them with a 604-1/2 Bedrock plane. I don't normally sand after planing. Occasionally, some spots have small tearouts, but I generally will just leave them alone and they are not noticeable after finishing if you don't mess with them. Occasionally, I get bad tearout; then I will scrape that area then hand sand the whole piece with 150-grit."- Moses Y.

"While I'll admit to my big, stand-mounted combo sander, one of my most-reached-for tools is my big, black, rubber, babby-buggy sanding block. I'm never really sure if I should be ashamed."- Steve M.

"I don't have a wide belt sander, and am unlikely to get one, due to my age and shop size.The equipment I use is a combination of hand sanders, ROS, Orbital, and felt block, hand-powered. I especially like my 1/3 sheet orbital, which is an old 'Skil.' I've had it for years, and it is slow. But on surfaces like glued-up chess boards, it's great at leveling out slight differences between and among squares. I can finish up with a very light SOS and 220/320 paper. I use the natural wood as God's colors. I couldn't be without my little Ryobi spindle sander when doing flat work or making patterns, say, for curved clock moldings, chair rockers, curved brackets, etc. However, the most exquisitly designed sander in the whole universe is my own hand. It works perfectly every time, given enough time." - George

While others took a broader interpretation, offering sanding advice in general. - Editor

"As with most process questions, the answer to this one depends on the desired result. I'd first ask what level of perfection are you after? That will determine how much you care about a dead flat surface. And, what finish will you be using? Film finishes, such as lacquers and varnishes, don't require as fine a grit as oil finishes. As to what equipment you should use, if you want a really flat surface, consider finding someone with a large wide-belt sander. In a few minutes, you can have a really flat surface ready for finish sanding. If it costs you money and time to schlep that monster to the nearest wide-belt, it's probably worth it in terms of the nice flat result and the lack of aggravation and grunt labor you'd need to go through otherwise.

"If you need to flatten a large solid-wood panel by yourself, the first thing to do is check the surface carefully for flatness with long straightedges, then take down the high spots with a hand plane. You can use card scrapers (or cabinet scrapers or scraping planes) to remove any minor traces of your hand plane. You can leave it at this if a scraped surface is to your liking, or you can commence sanding. I generally go to a 6" ROS with an aggressive enough grit to create a uniformly sanded surface in relatively short order....Move up through the grits until you've gotten to the level of grain clarity you want, making sure to completely get rid of evidence of previous grits. If you're planning to use any water-borne products such as stains or top coats, moisten the surface with a wet rag, let it dry, and then sand very lightly with your fine grit paper to get rid of the little nubs and fibers that were raised by the water....Anyhow, that's how I do it." - Ellis W.

If You're Planning a Hobby Shop from WoodCentral

Like many woodworkers, this one is dreaming about his ideal shop. Unlike many, he gets to actually build it – and he's asking for input from others. - Editor

"I'm building hobby headquarters in 2011, and I would appreciate some advice. North central Arkansas. Looks like the new building will be 44x32 with about 12x32 lost to a boat/RV bay. That leaves about 1000 sq. ft., but it's a bit square, which limits the perimeter length. Maybe I should go 48x32. Inside this shop will be a small dust-limited corner 'office' with heat/ac. Wood storage is in a separate shed. For my infrequent HVLP spraying, I can empty the bay temporarily.

"Thinking 10' ceiling for the shop part. Drywall ceiling & lots of lights. Wondering about flooring and elevation stuff! Concrete floor for the bay and wood floor for the shop? But the building site is quite level, so to allow support for a wood floor there's going to be a couple of steps up from the bay or from outside, right? Isn't that a problem for material handling and general in/out? I was thinking a garage-type rollup door for both bay and shop, but now I'm thinking of omitting the one into shop. Shop will have dust collection, but I don't know that I have the planning foresight or drive to put it in the floor at the right locations. Plus all my tools have wheels.

"All is variable at the moment. A friend once told me that he made the mistake of building his shop after his house had depleted too much of his money, and the shop suffered. So I'm doing it the other way around. The shop will be completed before we even break ground on the house." - Ron

The first respondent had a suggestion that was a bit out of the ordinary. - Editor

"Have you considered a pre-engineered metal building? Just thought I throw it out, because pre-engineered buildings are something most people might not have considered as an option. and you have a lot of flexibility with door/windows/skylights/garage door placement." - Rob C.

Some discussion in the thread took on the topic of the shop's floor. - Editor

"I have an wood floor in my shop area - the concrete slab was recessed to allow a 4x4x4 oak block laid end-grain up - best shop floor I ever had!"- Rob C.

"I stick built my shop and, for your floor, I would suggest what I did. In the shop area, lay down treated 2x4's flat, on 24" O.C and go over this with 241 plywood , which is 1-1/8th inch thick and finish off with a durable flooring like linoleum or, like I did, tempered Masonite cut into 15-7/8th inch squares and coated with a two-part epoxy paint. Been in use for 12 years with no visible wear and easy on the legs and feet and warm in the winter when the shop is heated.

"There are many reasons why a wood floor is superior to a concrete one...Wooden flooring is warm in the winter; concrete isn't. Wooden flooring will not ruin the edge on a edge tool or destroy anything that a trip to a concrete floor will. If concrete was equal to wood in ease of standing, then the floor mat companies would be out of business. If you fall on a wooden floor , you will be glad it was, a concrete one on the other hand.... If you need to fasten a machine or fixture to the floor, it is a piece of cake if it is wood, not so much if it is concrete. Your wooden floor will not develop shrinkage gaps or heave in cold weather if a dummy put it in: wooden floors are forgiving of weekend warrior types learning the hard way.

"Lastly, a combination of both types as I have described is the best of both worlds and you would be glad to have one." - Fred D.

"While joist floors are maybe easier on the feet, definitely easier on the do-it-yourselfer's wallet (but not cheaper if you're hiring a crew), in the meantime I've traded a debt owed to me for a 12" jointer that weighs about a ton. Now it's a relief that I have the concrete floor...concrete's good points for a workshop outweigh its drawbacks.

If you decide you want wood after it's done, its easy to retro-fit as Fred describes. Do the tall walls and scissor trusses also, and you'll even have the head room to put dust collection and electrics in the floor if you so desire. Personally, I find 10 walls a waste of effort, but the ability to raise the shop floor like that would definitely counter the waste distaste." - John

Also discussed: doors and walls, lighting and power – and more. - Editor

"You will never needs to pass into the shop with anything that won't go through a standard entry door. Such doors seal in heat and cooling, as needed, and seal out heat and cooling, humidity and rain. I am not fond of drywall walls in a shop. Walls are to hang stuff on. - Bill T.

"Drywall walls in a shop work great. I painted mine white and it improved the light levels noticeably even though I have a decent number of fluorescent fixtures. I put french cleats all along one wall to hang stuff on. The other walls have lumber racks, upper cabinets, tool storage, etc."- Chris F.

"I have a garage door on my shop. It leaks energy, but it very useful. The table saw is 16' from the rear wall and about five feet from the overhead door. I can rip a 16' board easily by opening the door and letting the board go out into the driveway. The width of the door pays off occasionally when cutting plywood. My point is, think about what your projects might be and allow [room] for them.".- Barry I.

"If you intend to do any detail work – carving, hand-cut dovetails, etc. – you will need excellent lighting, and more so if you are retired. I could 'arrange the furniture' in any size or shape of shop to build fine furniture, but not if I couldn't see scribe lines or shadow on a carving. It takes a boggling amount of fluorescent fixtures to equal the light coming in a large window. A typical large lighting store will have a computer program to determine lighting requirements for a given size and shape. While new and uncluttered, paint the floor (and walls) a very light color. It will reflect light otherwise lost from above and boost illumination more than adding several more fixtures." - Bill T.

Some respondents shared how they'd addressed these issues of setup in their own shops. - Editor

"Lighting: We have a 24' wide shop with 3 rows of florescent fixtures running end to end the length of the building. Light levels were between 100 and 150 lumens, which is bright but ...you are never in shadow. We did go with a warmer lamp to help the color of things look better.

"Floor: We are in an existing building that is mostly concrete and have many rubber mats. Your legs feel it by the end of the day if you don't stand on them....For the walls, I would lean toward OSB just because I tend to bump into them. Plywood under the [gypsum] is a good option.

"Doors: We have a double door into the shop which is handy. Residential overhead doors just don't seal. A compromise might be to have an overhead out to the boat bay. Make sure if you do have an overhead, you also have a man door next to it to minimize its use.

"Power: You can never have enough power. As we are in an existing building, ours is all in surface conduit but we have outlets every 8' around the perimeter with multiple circuits. I put in a few 220 outlets but have never used them. All of our large tools are hardwired."- Ryan H

"I've read through most of the responses, and thought I'd weigh in. I 'completed' my shop last year. It's a stand-alone in my backyard, and had a few years of thought that went into the planning before ground was ever broke. I'll touch on a few things here...

"At least 10' walls. And a vaulted ceiling adds a much more 'open' feeling.

"I recommend at least framing for a garage door in to the shop, but installing a double door. The double door is more than enough, seals better for insulation purposes, and doesn't take up as much valuable wall space. And, if you decide to install a garage door, you won't have to re-do any of the framing...

"Plumbing. Install a bathroom with hot & cold running water. Electrical -- Lots of outlets, and that includes putting them in the floor. Nothing worse than building a new shop and still tripping over extension cords... Oh, and don't forget outlets in the ceiling for air cleaners.

"Dust collection - Put it in the floor - See above. Locating the ports isn't all that difficult if you already know 'how you work.' Lay out your tools, either on graph paper, or use one of the many online shop design programs, and calculate distances from the walls. These don't have to be exact, but they do need to be relatively close. I brought power up through the floor in the same locations as the dc.

"Floor- I laid a wood floor over concrete. It was worth every penny. Walls- I was a volunteer firefighter for 10 years. I saw several fires where drywall saved the house. To make it so I could hang stuff wherever I wanted, I covered the drywall with 3/4" t&g cedar. And 5/8" drywall on the ceiling.

"More electrical - Think ahead for security, sound system, tv/radio, internet, telephone, etc. Insurance - Talk to your agent about insuring the new place. Some companies are a bit fickle when it comes to insuring woodshops in regards to heating and whether or not they 'make money.'" - Dave